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Thread: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

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    Default U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO
    Moscow and Washington reached a bilateral accord Friday on Russia's entry into the World Trade Organization, a major step in Russia's 12-year bid to join the powerful 149-nation body that sets the world's international trade rules.

    "We have an agreement in principle and are finalizing the details," said U.S. Trade Representative Susan Schwab, the chief U.S. negotiator in WTO talks with Russia. "This agreement will mark an important step in Russia attaining membership in the WTO."

    Schwab said the agreement is slated to be signed next week at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum in Hanoi, a summit that both President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin are scheduled to attend.

    Russia is the world's only major economy that does not belong to the WTO. Membership would shield its exports from arbitrary penalties imposed by other nations and ease the flow of American capital and expertise into its economy. American and European firms would enjoy greater access to Russian markets ranging from aircraft and agriculture to financial services.

    Getting U.S. approval marked a crucial step in Russia's bid for membership. To join, Russia must gain the approval of each current WTO member through bilateral talks. The U.S. had been the only major member nation yet to agree to Russia's inclusion.

    For years, WTO negotiations between the U.S. and Russia were slowed by Washington's concerns about Russia's poor track record in improving intellectual property rights, import terms for agricultural products and the Kremlin's reluctance to open up access to Russian financial services markets.

    Russia had hoped that an agreement could be reached before Putin hosted the Group of Eight summit of leading industrialized nations in St. Petersburg in July. Those talks broke down, however, and afterward Russia decided it would keep major U.S. oil companies out of a multibillion-dollar natural gas development project in the Barents Sea, a move analysts linked to the WTO impasse.

    The exact terms of the agreement were not released Friday. Schwab called the accord "a clear indication of Russia's efforts to participate fully in and benefit from the rules-based global trading system."

    Even with U.S. approval, Russia still needs to hammer out bilateral agreements with Moldova and Georgia, both of which were hit hard by Russia's decision to ban wine exports from their countries earlier this year.

    Georgia might prove the most difficult member nation yet to sign a bilateral agreement with Moscow. Russia's ban on Georgian wine was followed by a slew of economic sanctions against the tiny mountain nation's West-allied leadership, including severing all transport and postal links between the two countries. Authorities also began deporting hundreds of Georgians living and working in Russia, and shut down scores of Georgian-owned firms.

    After Russia imposed the economic blockade on Georgia earlier this fall Georgian leaders withdrew their support of Russia's inclusion in the WTO.

    If Russia is able to secure bilateral agreements with all current WTO members it still must undergo a separate round of multilateral talks with member states. Some experts say those talks could take as long as two years, though Russian Economic Development and Trade Minister German Gref said Friday that they likely would take about six months.

    The Bush administration does not need congressional approval to seal the bilateral agreement. However, Bush still must ask Congress to grant Russia "permanent normal trade relations," a designation that allows U.S. farmers and businesses to benefit from Russia's WTO membership.

    The newly elected Congress, which convenes in January, is now controlled by Democrats, who may be more critical of trade pacts with Russia.

    Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), who is in line to assume the chairmanship of the Senate Finance Committee, pointed to "unacceptable levels of piracy and counterfeiting" in Russia and said in a statement released Friday that the country "must take additional steps to earn a welcome into the WTO."

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    Default Obama: Russia belongs in the WTO

    Obama says U.S. will support Russia's WTO bid

    WASHINGTON
    Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:04pm EDT




    U.S. President Barack Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (L) make statements in the East Room at the White House in Washington June 24, 2010.

    Credit: Reuters/Larry Downing

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Thursday the United States and Russia had reached agreement to resume exporting U.S. poultry products to Russia and his administration would support Moscow's accession to the World Trade Organization.
    Politics | Barack Obama

    "Russia belongs in the WTO," Obama told reporters at a joint news conference with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

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    Default Re: Obama: Russia belongs in the WTO

    What does the California Bear and Russia have in common?



    Medvedev seeks US help to steer Russia into a new economic age


    27 June 2010 - Issue : 891


    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (C) and California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) tour Cisco Systems Corporate Headquarters in San Jose, California, US, 23 June. Schwarzenegger accompanied Medvedev to Cisco Systems Inc, the manufacturer of computer-networking equipment, and then to a visit at electronics maker Apple Inc. During a separate meeting with Medvedev, Schwarzenegger signed an agreement with Russia’s Renova Group of Companies, which has pledged to provide financial support to keep the landmark Fort Ross open |ANA/EPA/JUSTIN SHORT/OFFICE OF GOVERNOR SCHWARZENEGGER/HANDOUT


    Amid their renewed sense of cooperation, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and US President Barack Obama are determined to capitalize in the economic sphere. Following their meeting in the White House, Obama on 24 June signaled his strong commitment to working for Russia’s entry into the World Trade Organization, part of a deepening economic agenda for the US and Russian leaders. The WTO issue was an especially high priority for Medvedev, who joined Obama for a press conference after morning meetings and lunch at a Virginia hamburger restaurant.

    Medvedev told reporters that things must be “substantially changed” in the Russian business climate. Since taking office he has pushed for reforms to expand the role of civil society and protect human rights. The leaders agreed that the unresolved WTO entry issues would be ironed out by September, Medvedev said. “Russia belongs in the World Trade Organization. It’s good for Russia, good for America and good for the world economy,” Obama said. As a symbol of Russia’s “seriousness” about joining, Obama said Russia had agreed to allow US poultry imports into the country.

    Russia and the US are intent on building economic ties on the strong record of cooperation on security issues that have marked Obama’s first year and a half in office: agreement on the New START Treaty on nuclear disarmament and agreement on new sets of sanctions against both North Korea and Iran.

    “Twenty years after the end of the Cold War, the relationship must be about more than security and arms control,” Obama said, adding that mutual “prosperity” was the next goal. Obama conceded that there were still areas of disagreement - such as that over Georgia, where the US insists Russia withdraw from its occupation of the two Georgian breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    Obama has stepped back from Bush’s plans to put a system of missile defense in place across Eastern Europe, a project Medvedev strongly opposed. But Obama noted his efforts to build an alternative system for which he hopes to get Russia’s support.

    The US wants “to work with Russia to be a key player and beneficiary in this global architecture,” Interfax quoted Obama as saying. Obama and Medvedev agreed to work for ratification of the New Start treaty “as soon as possible,” Obama said. And they discussed the crises in Kyrgyzstan, the Middle East, North Korea and Iran.

    On the growing conflict in Central Asia, Medvedev expressed concern that without a “full fledged government” that can grapple with the ethnic discord, Kyrgyzstan will “degrade and break up into parts.” “All of us share concern that under these circumstances, radical elements might rise to power,” the Russian leader said.

    Russia, the US and the international community have been coordinating their humanitarian efforts, and the Russian Federation was not planning to deploy peacekeepers, Medvedev said. Obama noted that any actions to protect civilians in the central Asian country would “not be done under the flag of any individual country.”

    By the time he got to the White House, Medvedev spent a day in California securing support in the high-tech community for building a Russian version of the Silicon Valley, hoping to steer Russia into a new economic age. He even tried his hand at tweeting for the first time.

    But he also brought a gift on 23 June for Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger - a commitment by a Russian private company to help California preserve a historic Russian settlement from the 19th century.

    Along the way, the Russian leader stopped at the headquarters of the micro-blogging internet site Twitter, where he sent his first message, called a tweet, to the @KremlRussia account, the San Francisco Chronicle reported. “Hello everyone. I am now on Twitter. This is my first message,” he wrote in Russian with the help of Twitter head Evan Williams. “The decision of major American companies to come to Russia and invest shows that we can agree on more than just missiles,”

    Medvedev later wrote on Twitter. “Russia and the US are working to improve global security, but the goal of this visit is to improve our economic relations.”

    Schwarzenegger accompanied Medvedev to Cisco Systems Inc, the manufacturer of computer-networking equipment, and then to a visit at electronics maker Apple Inc with its chief executive officer Steve Jobs.

    During a separate meeting with Medvedev, Schwarzenegger signed an agreement with Russia’s Renova Group of Companies, which has pledged to provide financial support to keep the landmark Fort Ross open, a statement from the governor’s office said.

    Renova head Viktor Vekselberg was reportedly on hand for the signing. Vekselberg is Medvedev’s point-man to oversee the creation of a Russian high-tech centre in the Moscow suburb of Skolkovo.

    Fort Ross was an agricultural colony established in 1812 about 100 kilometers north of San Francisco under a charter from a tsarist government. It supported trade and the dispatch of Russian immigrants to the West Coast and Alaska for decades during the Gold Rush. One of California’s oldest state parks, it is now open only three days a week after harsh state cutbacks.

    Schwarzenegger said Russian support for the park highlighted “the diverse history of California and the importance of Russian culture to our state.”

    Medvedev took with him a pledge from Schwarzenegger to put together a technology trade mission to Moscow to help with the Skolkovo project. Russia has been largely dependent on technology imports in recent years as its own industry remains heavily focused on energy and metals since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. “I would like that, as a result of this trip, we start full-fledged relations that will lead to establishing powerful cooperation,” Medvedev said.


    Google Inc chief executive Eric Schmidt had already agreed to join the Skolkovo board before the Medvedev visit, Bloomberg reported. Vekselberg said Cisco
    would also join the Skolkovo efforts, according to the financial news agency
    .

    The Obama administration was enthusiastic about Medvedev’s technology initiative and sees it as the palpable outcome of a year of hard work to reset a relationship that had gone adrift during the Bush administration.

    Obama saw Medvedev’s high-tech push as “something that will unleash growth for Russia” and increase opportunity for US exports and jobs.

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    Default Re: Obama: Russia belongs in the WTO

    Foreign Policy: The Terms Of Russia Joining The WTO

    by David Christy


    Enlarge Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images Going soft on the terms of Russia's WTO accession is bad for everyone, including the Russians.

    Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images

    Going soft on the terms of Russia's WTO accession is bad for everyone, including the Russians.

    June 28, 2010

    David Christy is a member of the international trade group of the global law firm DLA Piper LLP and an adjunct professor of law at Georgetown University. He has advised countries on WTO accession and has represented WTO members in dispute settlement.

    In "Let Russia Join the WTO," Anders Aslund and C. Fred Bergsten have done a good job explaining the arguments in favor of Russian accession.

    As a member of the G-8 and the G-20, and as the largest economy outside the World Trade Organization (WTO), the case in favor of Russia joining the WTO practically makes itself. U.S. President Barack Obama, who met on June 24 with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in Washington, said, "Russia belongs in the WTO" and confirmed that he would ask U.S. negotiators to speed up the pace of accession talks. He then set a Sept. 30 target date for accession, which plays right into Moscow's strategy.

    Everyone is focused on timing, but the issue is not whether or when Russia should join, but the terms. The fact of the matter is that Russia has yet to accept a set of commitments that justifies entry into the WTO.
    Terms that are too soft might have a negative impact on the WTO, Russia's trading partners, and, in the long term, Russia itself. Aslund and Bergsten sidestep this issue.

    Moreover, the authors' description of the negotiation process has it backward. They correctly note that Russia's accession has taken a long time roughly 17 years, and counting. However, the facts do not suggest that WTO members are to blame for this drawn-out negotiation. Rather, the length is due in large part to Russia's negotiating style if not its strategy for achieving entry into the organization.

    Aslund and Bergsten implicitly suggest that, due to a variety of weightier international concerns, WTO members should not subject Russia to the same level of rigor they applied to past applicants. But this would allow accession based on a modest set of commitments. Also, it would create larger problems down the road. The period before accession is generally members' last chance to obtain significant commitments from soon-to-be-signatory states on a variety of issues in Russia's case, issues that have been on the table for years. But much of the leverage they now enjoy will disappear the moment Russia joins the organization.

    WTO accession talks often drag on partly because, for reasons pertaining to domestic politics, the acceding country is not always fully engaged in the process. In complex, long-term accessions, such as those involving China and Saudi Arabia, progress comes in fits and starts. The vast majority occurs in the last few years, when the acceding country buckles down to focus fully on the process and forces the necessary domestic and international compromises. Moscow, however, appears hellbent on avoiding this stage of the process.

    Russia has managed to turn WTO accession on its head by acting as a deal maker, not a deal taker. Year after year, Russian negotiators have signaled that they have made more progress than is in fact the case and have refused to budge on key issues. They are playing a waiting game, counting on a variety of extraneous issues to make its set of proposed commitments (which WTO members would have rejected out of hand had any other country made them) more attractive. Compared with the accessions of China and Saudi Arabia, the reforms Russia has offered and implemented are far less extensive.

    Russia might benefit from the major international players' preoccupation with other priorities, for which they require Moscow's help. The U.S. negotiating position has fluctuated as part of a larger dance relating to its effort to isolate Iran. The European Union has yet to place pressure on Russia, presumably because of the reliance of many of its member states on Russian energy. And there are also powerful institutional factors affecting the negotiations: The WTO, put simply, needs a win.

    The Doha Development Round, meant to lower global trade barriers, is still going nowhere. Russian accession would put a smile on everyone's face, at least for a while, and would help cement WTO Director-General Pascal Lamy's legacy.

    These factors tilt the balance toward WTO members' acceptance of a very modest set of commitments for Russia's entry. Should this happen, Moscow's strategy will have succeeded brilliantly and in spite of a substantial list of open concerns. Medvedev's June 24 agreement to remove the ban on U.S. poultry imports is significant, but the open issues range from straightforward trade issues, such as high export duties on timber, to the Kremlin's leveraging of its energy sector to achieve political goals, such as during its dispute with Ukraine in January 2009. In addition, the impact of the customs union between Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan on all three members' accessions will be profound, but has yet to be fully assessed. One thing is certain: If the customs union requires changes to Russia's trade regimes, WTO negotiations which had closed will be reopened.

    These are all thorny issues, and they will only become more difficult to resolve if WTO members leave them until after accession. Different approaches to personal finances should be resolved prior to marriage, not after. Some states may hope to punt these problems to the WTO's dispute settlement system. The system at present, however, is ill-equipped to mop up the messes members leave behind: It is already operating at capacity and was never meant to handle many of the complex outstanding issues between the parties, especially Russia's political leveraging in the energy sector.

    As Russia pushes for accession, time is on its side. Aslund and Bergsten's article was well-timed for Russia's charm offensive in Washington this week. But with each article like theirs, Russia's negotiating position grows stronger.

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    Default Re: Obama: Russia belongs in the WTO

    Russia may join WTO in spring 2011


    Victor Yenikeev
    Jun 28, 2010 13:58 Moscow Time

    Download Arkady Dvorkovich. Photo: RIA Novosti
    Russia could enter the WTO no earlier than spring 2011. Russian presidential aide Arkady Dvorkovich indicated this at the G20 summit in Toronto.

    This statement came as an update on the agreement reached by Presidents Dmitry Medvedev and Barack Obama during the Washington summit. The two presidents pledge to come to accord on outstanding issues by September 30th 2011 and to join forces on bilateral level and with the participation of other WTO members to secure Russia’s membership in the global trade club at an early date. The United States has also pledged assistance and advisory support for Russia.

    Both President Obama and his predecessors have repeatedly made statements to this effect throughout the 17 years that Moscow has been in talks on WTO membership. However, it’s the US that created a major barrier all along.

    But this should now come to an end, President Medvedev said. For the first time ever, the Russian and US leaders have voiced the WTO bid on paper, and for the first time they have set a clear deadline for winding up WTO talks. The US has welcomed a deal with Russia to put an end to a poultry spat between the two countries.

    President Medvedev should take credit for getting a joint statement on Russia’s WTO bid on paper and negotiating a date for finalizing the deal.

    Russia’s ascension to WTO meets the interests of Russia, the United States and the rest of the trade community. President aide Arkady Dvorkovich gives next spring as the most likely time. A temporary lull from the end of September is due to technical details.

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    Default Re: Obama: Russia belongs in the WTO

    Medvedev orders government to speed up Russia's WTO bid

    Topic: Russia's WTO entry

    Dmitry Medvedev

    21:20 15/11/2010
    © RIA Novosti





    The remaining issues hampering Russia's accession to the World Trade Organization should be resolved quickly, and without creating obstacles to businesses, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Monday.
    The president ordered Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov to personally oversee the process.
    Russia, the only major economy outside the global trade body, has been negotiating WTO membership for 17 years, although the average accession period is only five to seven years.
    Shuvalov said on Monday that lumber export taxes were the main issue of concern to Russia's European partners, and were delaying the accession procedure.
    He also said he would discuss the issue with EU representatives in Brussels, ahead of the Russia-EU summit on December 7, which Medvedev is due to attend.
    "I hope this issue will be completely resolved during your talks in Brussels," Shuvalov told the Russian president.
    Russian Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin said last week that the final accession procedures would start in two-four months and could be finalized next year.
    After a meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama in Japan's Yokohama on Sunday, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said "serious progress" had been made in Russia's WTO accession process.
    Washington has repeatedly claimed that the United States does not oppose and even welcomes Russia's accession to the trade organization.
    GORKI, November 15 (RIA Novosti)
    http://en.rian.ru/russia/20101115/161351315.html

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    Default Re: Obama: Russia belongs in the WTO

    Russia to sign WTO accession document with EU next week - EU official

    Topic: Russia's WTO entry


    Russia to sign WTO accession document with EU next week - EU official


    13:57 29/11/2010
    © AFP/ Thomas Coex

    Related News


    Russia and the European Union will sign a document next week on Russia's accession to the World Trade Organization (WTO), following the results of bilateral negotiations on the issue, EU delegation to Russia head Fernando Valenzuela said on Monday.

    The document is expected to be signed at a Russia-EU summit, which will be held on December 7.

    Valenzuela said Russia and the EU had achieved a considerable breakthrough at their negotiations on Russia's entry into the world trade club, resolving all their bilateral issues. The issues that remained were multilateral and needed to be discussed in a multilateral format, he said.

    Valenzuela said the Russia-EU summit would seal this breakthrough and complete bilateral negotiations.

    The summit will also give a new impetus to the negotiations on a new agreement between Russia and the European Union, including partnership for modernization between Russia and the EU, he said.

    MOSCOW, November 29 (RIA Novosti)

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    Default Russia Cleared To Join WTO After 18 Years

    Russia Cleared To Join WTO After 18 Years
    Russia has won approval to join the World Trade Organisation (WTO) after 18 "marathon" years of talks to gain entry to the 153-member club.

    December 16, 2011

    The world's 11th largest economy now has six months to ratify its membership after being given the go-ahead on Friday at a meeting of the trade body in Geneva

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said in a statement: "This result of long and complex talks is good both for Russia and for our future partners."

    Welcoming the former Soviet nation into the club, Pascal Lamy, WTO director-general, said: "This is clearly a historic moment for the Russian Federation and the rule-based multilateral system after an 18-year marathon. The accession of Russia to the WTO will cement the integration of the Russian Federation into the world economy and will bring greater certainty to business operators and trading partners."

    Once Russia joins, the WTO will account for 97pc of global trade. After applying in 1993, the country's membership was delayed by having to secure 87 deals on access to goods and services with other nations, as well as the controversial Russian-Georgia conflict. Georgia was the last country Russia secured an agreement with, clearing its entry. Only China took anywhere as long to join, at 15 years.

    Vince Cable, the Business Secretary, said Russia's membership would end an anomaly and would confirm the WTO's importance on the world stage.

    "As supporters of Russia's desire to join the WTO, we welcome this long-awaited decision," Mr Cable said. "Russia is the last major economy still outside the WTO and its accession will be a boost to the multilateral trading system, cementing the WTO's status as a truly global organisation. This will bring benefits to the UK economy as well as to Russian consumers and businesses by lowering prices and easing trade."

    UK exports to Russia totalled 」3.45bn in 2010 according to UKTI data and trade between the two nations is growing at an average of 21pc a year.

    However, Russia has gained some notoriety as being an unpredictable country to deal with, most famously with TNK-BP chief executive Bob Dudley, now the boss of BP, having to flee the country in 2008 after a row with the joint venture's Russian partners over his stewardship of the business.

    A spokesman for the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills said: "We hope that Russia plays a constructive role on the WTO committees and groups with full transparency to resist global protectionism and strengthen multilateral trade."

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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Maybe this isn't such a bad idea after all.

    WTO Membership Could Open Floodgate Of Russian Guns & Ammo
    March 24, 2012

    Last December Russian finally obtained WTO membership. A reader of TFB explains how this could open the floodgate for Russian arms imports into the USA...
    First a short backgrounder on why some Russian guns and ammo are sold in the US and others are not. Back in 1998 the US and Russia signed a Voluntary Restraint Agreement which said only certain firearms and ammunition could be imported for commercial purposes. The Voluntary Restraint Agreement doesn't expire and was mutually agreed by both the US and Russia. It's why you don't see huge amounts of Russian parts kits, true Russian surplus ammunition (the stuff marked Russia comes from Ukraine), or even Russian SKSes (which are also banned from import but were previously allowed prior to 1998, but you do see Saigas, VEPRs, some models of Mosins, commercial 5.45, 7.62x39, and 7.62x54R. Russia still has a tremendous stockpile of Soviet era ammunition and firearms. Not surprisingly they had nearly 10 times as much compared to many of the satellite states.



    Now recently I remember seeing that despite how for several years there has been impasse Russia finally got approval to join the World Trade Organization in December of 2011 after lots of wrangling between them and Georgia, who was already a member. I didn't think much of it then but it turns out the WTO requires the nullification of all voluntary export restraints (which includes the US-Russian Voluntary Restraint Agreement) but allows each member country one exemption in a given industrial sector. It is unlikely that Russia will choose firearms/defense as their industry exemption because they can already create restrictions on it utilizing the state's national security infrastructure, much like how we do the same thing in the US with ITAR. It's more likely they'll put trade restrictions on things like energy, chemicals, steel, heavy industry that kind of thing. The very reason why the WTO is such a big deal is because it allows foreign corporations to sell goods and services within Russia without the previous barriers to entry.

    All of this is to say that depending on who "owns" the old Soviet era stockpiles of guns and ammunition we could very well see a flood of Russian milsurp ammo and parts kits that will make Yugoslavia and Romania's import of ammo and kits back in the early 2000s look minuscule. It's likely that Saigas and VEPRs would still be imported but at the same time I suspect Izmash Legion will leverage old gun stockpiles and get into the parts kit business, importing kits for every gun they sell and working with K-var or other US companies to make 922r compliant non-sporting rifles.

    Now I would suspect if any of this does happen it will be 3+ years out, but none the less it will have significant impacts on the AK and AK ammunition markets, surplus 5.45, 7.62x39, and 7.62x54r will all go down considerably, perhaps even back to the era in the late 90s when you could buy tins for a little more than a nickel a round.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Well.... the Russians are known for selling weapons to anyone with money. So why not "American Patriots"?

    LOL

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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Yep. Would be awesome to see prices go back down to the levels they're talking about.

    I remember 1k cases of 7.62x39 for $79. Alas I was just out of high school and poor and could not stockpile it then.

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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    At least, Ryan, you weren't one to steal it. LOL

    You know these punks with guns today stole the gun and the only bullets they have are what they found in the guns....
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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    How about a couple of cases of these?



    7.62x39 Armor Piercing Incendiaries. Both have 2 part projectile with brass tip and steel jacket lower half. Incendiary compound is on bottom and sides and the igniter at very bottom. This is the Soviet type BZ armor piercing incendiary. Bullet weight is 120gr (7.77 grams).

    The Poeples Rep China (type 56) uses same bullet but with black tip, Yugoslavian (M82 cartridge) has different variant that holds incendiary compound in seperate brass cup. Yugo weighs 116gr (7.55 grams)
    Top:

    Egypt, UAR/ 29/ 71, brass case, black over red tip
    Middle:

    Egyptian full projectile
    Bottom:

    USSR, 539/*/K/*, copper washed steel case, black over red tip
    wolfgang

    Reference: HERE!!



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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Oh, those will be on the ban list so far your head will swim. lol
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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Unfortunately, we will never get any of those rounds.

    7.62x39 has been deemed a pistol round by ATF and as such armor piercing rounds cannot be imported/made in that caliber.

    The closest you'll get is finding some of that old Norinco mild steel core that is more akin to an improved penetrator round (thankfully I found 1k of those about 6 years ago for a hell of a steal!).

    The other option is to take pulled .30-06 M2 black tip and load it in 7.62x39 brass. The bullet isn't the .311 diameter that the 7.62x39 bullet is so you won't be making match ammo with it but it should work. Of course, this option would be illegal for your average Joe since manufacturing AP ammo in restricted calibers is against the law except for manufacturers to sell to gov't.

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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Ruck View Post
    The closest you'll get is finding some of that old Norinco mild steel core that is more akin to an improved penetrator round (thankfully I found 1k of those about 6 years ago for a hell of a steal!).
    Like this?


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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Yep, that's the stuff. Also some that came in a green-ish colored box is steel core as well though it doesn't say so on the box like the yellow box.

    Saw the ammo for $2 and change a box and promptly bought all of it.

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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO

    Con: Expanding trade with Russia now will only strengthen Putin痴 iron grip

    By BOGDAN KIPLING Tuesday, June 19, 2012
    EMAIL SHARE PRINT

    WASHINGTON EDITOR担 NOTE: The writer is addressing the question, 鼎an the U.S. afford to do business with Russia?

    President Obama in his efforts to cozy up to Russian strongman Vladimir Putin wants Congress to remove most restrictions on trade with Russia.

    Like so many of Obama痴 initiatives, his latest Russia move seems naive because Russia will get all the benefits of free trade in the U.S. market, but American companies may have to wait his whim before he removes Russia痴 harrowing trade barriers.

    Moreover, Obama cannot ignore the importance of human rights Americans hold dear at home and expect respect from abroad.

    Putin presides over a government that seems incapable of finding the murders of Russian journalists and frequently dispatches political opponents to the Gulag Archipelago.

    Then there is Putin痴 opposition to key United States global policy objectives幼hief among them constructing an effective defense against terrorism and ballistic missiles.

    A former KGB officer assigned to oppressing East Germans, Putin is no fan of democracy or civil liberties. Nor, from his recent actions, is he much of an admirer of Obama.

    Consider these examples: Putin threatens to aim nuclear war heads at U.S. allies in Europe unless the United States drops all plans for a defensive shield from Iranian missiles.

    Obama already has scrapped the NATO-approved missile shield agreement that was to be built in Poland and the Czech Republic. His predecessor George W. Bush negotiated and signed the purely defensive deal, but Prague and Warsaw remain as Putin痴 nuclear targets.

    The ironic sum of it is: Obama blinked and may have bought himself a slew of Democrats of Polish and Czech extraction who may vote Republican in November.

    In recent months, Putin has not only opposed ever effort by the global community to intervene in Syria and stop Bashar al-Assad from slaughtering thousands of his own people. Now he is in the process of delivering Russian assault helicopters at al-Assad.

    As Middle East expert Lawrence J. Haas recently noted: Al-Assad痴 survival 努ill mark a major victory for Washington痴 key adversaries葉he autocrats of Beijing, Moscow, and Tehran who fear that the Arab Spring and other democratic uprisings will incite unrest in their own countries.

    Not only did Putin block such humanitarian responses, he directly shipped even more Russian arms to al-Assad and sent additional weapons to Iran for trans-shipment to Damascus. In addition, Russia has supplied Iran痴 theocratic despots with key components and materials they desperately need to make nuclear warheads despite their many threats to use them against Israel.

    Obama had to be dragged by France and Britain to join the NATO intervention in Libya and it should not surprise anyone that he is mainly silent about Syria様eaving Secretary of State Hillary Clinton frustrated and embarrassed.

    Now Obama wants to award Putin by giving him normal international trade relations. What痴 in it for the USA? Not much!

    William H. Cooper, a congressional research specialist in international trade, reported last January that despite some recent expansion the flow of trade and investment between Russia remains very low.

    Or as Kempton Jenkins, assistant deputy Secretary of Commerce, for East-West trade told Soviet negotiators before the Berlin Wall crumbled in 1989 努e do more business with Canada on a Saturday morning than with the Soviet Union in a year.

    Not that much has changed. Business groups forever dream of huge exports to Russia. Is that realistic? Hardly! Just the other day, Putin told the world he wants vastly expanded trade with China.

    Obama, who wants Russia in the World Trade Organization without a quid pro quo, apparently wants to believe that the audacity of hope will turn Putin into an honest player on the world stage.

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    Default Re: U.S. OKs Russia's Entrance To WTO


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