If I were the President of this land.....

[Luke]

I spent part of the Indepence Day holiday reading The Declaration of Independece. Ms. Luke thinks I take too many pain killers, but none the less it took my mind of my back for a while. Anyway I remember reading it in Jr. High, but I guess I really didn't appreciate it's meaning back all those years ago. The Founding Fathers were some gutsy, brave SOB's.

After looking at photo's of modern day Presidents I can't imagine anyone wanting that responsibility, look how much it ages men.

When I was able to vote in my first election I couldn't wait to be old enough to run for the Office, silly me. I wanted to be an astronaut, before that.

Luckily that dream never came to pass, but had it happened that I were elected to the Office of the President in this election the first thing I would try to accomplish would be to station troops on BOTH our soutrhern and northern borders. As part of a soldiers tour of duty, the last year of service would be spent on the United States border. All GI benefits would be automaticly approved before discharge. NO ONE would enter our country illegally.

I am curious and somewhat others on this board would do.

[Aplomb]

...so...you waited until the time was right and now you are asking for my vote, Luke? Gee and right when I thought I was stuck voting for McCain.

[Backstop]

1. Seal the borders tighter than a frog’s you-know-what.

2. Ship an AK to Feinstein, using an FFL, etc - following all established laws.

3. Increase our military’s strength tenfold.

4. Kick Hillary Clinton in the nuts.

5. Drill for oil here in the U.S. Then drill some more.

6. Release all available Classified info regarding UFOs, aliens, John Titor, etc.

7. Repeal most gun laws.

8. Kick Murtha in the taco.

9. Research and publish all info regarding Obama and his birth cert.

10. Catch and deport every single person in this country that is here illegally.

11. Fine employers that hire illegals $1 million dollars for each illegal, and make them pay all expenses associated with deporting that illegal.

12. Put Heckle and Jeckle, Pixie and Dixie, and Road Runner back on Boomerang - I just changed my cable service.

Guess that’s about it for now.

[Luke]

Oh Lordy Aplomb, whatever you do DO NOT vote for Luke! My second day in office I would authorize immediate building of Federal Oil refineries. No taxes charged, all profits reinvested back into nuke plants, wind farms and solar arrays. Yikes!

[American Patriot]

Agree with all but:

11. Fine employers that hire illegals $1 million dollars for each illegal, and make them pay all expenses associated with deporting that illegal.

KNOWINGLY HIRE is one thing.

Let me point something out.

Employers have NO WAY of knowing whether someone is an illegal alien. Period.

The government is at fault here and the government needs to fix the problem.

ANYONE can show up with a social security card that might be theirs or not, might be fake, might be real but in someone else's name and so on.

Employers have no legal means of testing whether those cards are good or not.

(There is an online system but it's voluntary, and flawed still).

I am actually kind of tired of hearing this mantra "fine the employers" and it's coming from Congress critters which, for them is a boon since it gets thema chance to FINE someone and put money in the pockets of the government, something they don't need - and it takes attention off the REAL problem, which IS

CLOSING THE BORDER TO ILLEGALS!

[Aplomb]

Not that I disagree, Rick, because I don't at all...

Yet, when a grown man shows up with a soc card and can only speak Spanish, you have to KNOW that the person wasn't raised here. Unless the person has documentation as to how this is possible, then you had some clue. There are some who hire innocently enough, and then there are the companies that continually hire illegals because they want people who will not be so quick to turn them into the labor board for things like getting the production quota in while missing breaks or lunch. And that's a fact. So I think it is a good idea and a think-first for some fine to be had by the company as well.

[American Patriot]

Look Aplomb, you can NOT deny giving the man a job who is otherwise qualified simply because you don't like his looks.

That's illegal discrimination.

This is a line of rhetoric that needs to stop and stop now.

If someone can't speak English and it's necessary for the job position then state so in your hiring material. They haven't got a choice. Most states allow you to hire and fire at will.

However this constant crap about "fining the employer" is a ridiculous concept that plays RIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THE LEFT.

That is, "Let's nuke BIG BUSINESS and get more MONEY out of them since they OWE us SOMETHING".

People need to get out of that mentality and FIX THE PROBLEM.

The problem isn't hiring illegals.

The PROBLEM is LETTING THEM INTO THE COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE and our government is AT FAULT!

[Beetle]

If I were President, I would personally push the button.

My platform:

Troubles come
and they go away

[Toad]

My 2 cents.

There are a few bad operators out there who knowingly and purposefully hire illegals. Bust their ass and bust it hard if the evidence is there beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The thing is, for the small family business(or even big biz)... say a roofing contractor with a crew of 4, how deep and how much money do we expect them to expend in just hiring someone? The applicant gives you a legal looking SSN card, state drivers license, place of residence, bank they use, past employer resume, speaks broken but workable english... how can we reasonably expect a small employer to sift the true-legal from the looks-legal-but-not applicants? We honestly can't. If someone is seeking to decieve, they have a pretty good chance of doing it under current conditions.

I don't want to see small business get the government beatdown due to the deception of the employee against the employer.

Also, slapping a straight dollar fine across the board I don't see as being fair or ultimately effective. A $1.0 million slap on our small time roofing contractor puts him out of business. That same $1.0 million slap on a nation wide meatpacking plant, they can suck up several of those a year every year and roll it into operating expenses. There's a vast diparity in the end result of the penalty. If there was to be a fine involved, it would have to be floating.

The answers aren't easy, but they start with our Government doing it's job and securing the border.

[American Patriot]

That's precisely the point.

Small business, ladies and gentlemen, make this world go around. Put them out of business and we all will be out of business, one way or another.

[Aplomb]

If I was an American President, I would do that which I have the power to do and where I don't have the power, I would exhaust all resources and schrewdly use all legal means to put people in other positions of power who think and operate as I do; and thereby have more control over those who are unwittingly involved and those who are earnestly intent on destroying our country. And hell yes, my business would be in the business of other countries. I would also need to be sure of my intel sources and build a stronger military force with supportive services for the military and their families in every regard. I would get rid of the teachers unions, revamp quite a few things that go on in the public education system, including utilizing the voucher funding to private schools. I would also have a radio talk show where I would give the American people daily broadcast discussions and debates with guests and callers who are socialist/democrat/liberal types that serves to enlighten and educate the populous as to what lines of reasoning are true and accurate-- and just exactly who the hell I am. Of course, I am no badass like Rick, and I really don't want a president who isn't one. Maybe I would make a good VP lol.

[Aplomb]

The purpose of the discussions is so everybody can see people make ridiculous spectacles of themselves with their stupid views, while they argue against "the president" is what I mean, if you didn't get that. I just think it would be pretty cool to see him/her daily kicking butt royal. And I think it would change a lot of views.

[American Patriot]

I'll play.... but you won't like what I say...

[Aplomb]

I don't always like what you say, Rick, and I don't often like how you say things, either. It kind of reminds me of Patton hitting that scared and cowardice soldier. But I have learned from you because of it. ...so when you gonna run???

[American Patriot]

2012.

On the other hand, I don't really care what anyone thinks of what I have to say.

LOL!

[Backstop]

I was under the impression that a system existed whereby an employer could verify a person's status.

If there is no system in place to do this, why does the government tell employers to verify a potential employees status, and why is there a law in place whereby an employer can be penalized for hiring an illegal alien?

Frankly, I don't have any first hand experience in determining the immigrations status of anyone. But I may call the shop tomorrow and get some details.

Right now, I'm working at a DHS facility - the Texas Cryptology Center. To work there, you had to provide a birth cert and a Texas (or some other state issued) ID card.

They gave me a red ID badge with pic.

Some of the guys were unable to provide the needed documentation (I don‘t know what), so they have a white badge, and are not allowed inside any bldg.

A co-worker and friend of mine processed into the job site the same day I did, went through orientation, etc. He was given a white badge because he did not have the original copy of his (IIRC) Naturalization papers. He was able to get those, and was issued a red badge at some point.

If an employer knowingly breaks the law by hiring an illegal, then he needs to be penalized. Period.

[Backstop]

Interesting.

http://localtechwire.com/business/local_tech_wire/opinion/story/2561114/

Try E-Verify, Avoid the Fine for Hiring Illegal Aliens

By Jennifer G. Parser, Ward and Smith, P.A.
Posted: Mar. 12, 2008

Editor's Note: Jennifer Parser is a member of the Labor and Employment Section and Immigration Practice Group of Ward and Smith, P.A.

With today's complex immigration laws, all employers must be careful to avoid hiring illegal aliens. Employers no longer can rely on an alien's presentation of an apparently authentic work authorization document. Employers now must make good faith efforts to verify the document and the alien's social security number.

On January 1, 2008, the federal government's new E Verify system became operational. This system is an internet-based application, operated jointly by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services ("USCIS") and the Social Security Administration ("SSA"), and intended to provide employers with an easy way to verify both employment eligibility of newly hired employees and the legality of each employee's social security number.

What Does E-Verify Actually Do?

E Verify assists employers to determine whether a newly hired employee is authorized to work in the United States and if the social security number presented by the employee is valid.

Why E-Verify?

E Verify is both free and easily accessed. More importantly, in the event of a USCIS raid or audit, it provides a useful tool for the employer to demonstrate good faith in its employment eligibility verification procedures and record maintenance. With specially developed software, an employer can extract information from the employer's computerized records or electronic I 9 filings, and transmit the data directly to the SSA and the USCIS's E Verify database.

How Can You Qualify to Use E-Verify?

Each employer wishing to employ the E Verify system must enter into a form Memorandum of Understanding with the USCIS and the SSA. The employer can designate one site to perform the E Verify functions on behalf of the employer's entire company, in which case only one Memorandum of Understanding needs to be signed; alternatively, the employer can designate each of its sites to perform its own E Verify, in which case each site must sign a Memorandum of Understanding. Once this is completed, the person specified by the employer or employer worksite as its designated agent can register to use E Verify and obtain passwords for access by permitted users.

What are the Requirements Related to Use of E-Verify?

As soon as an employer decides to participate in E Verify, it is required to post a clearly visible notice advising its employees and prospective employees of that participation. A copy of this notice also must be provided to the Department of Homeland Security and appear with any antidiscrimination notice issued by the Office of Special Counsel for immigration-related unfair employment practices. All of these notices are available online once a business registers with E Verify.

What are the Restrictions on E Verify Use?

It is critical that employers understand that prescreening job applicants by using the E-Verify system is prohibited; it may be used only on newly hired employees prior to or within three days after the employee's actual start date. It may not be used to delay an employee's training or commencement of employment, or to accelerate the start date for employment.

Also, the E Verify system may not be used selectively; once the employer registers with E Verify, all new employees, United States citizens and non-citizens alike, must be entered into the system. An employee who already has been hired may not be subjected to E Verify to confirm or re verify employment authorization. E Verify information must be kept separate and apart from an employee's personnel records.

What Are the Limitations of E-Verify?

E-Verify cannot be used for employees who do not yet have a social security number, since one of the data fields necessarily will be left blank and the system will not function.

Also, E Verify does not verify immigration status. It verifies only the identity and employment eligibility of newly hired employees.

What Employee Documents Can an Employer Use for E-Verify?

E Verify can verify any document with a photo that is provided by the employee to the employer as proof of work eligibility in completion of the I-9. The I-9 contains a List A and List B of acceptable documents for use in verifying eligibility to work in the United States. The List A documents include a United States passport, expired or unexpired; an unexpired foreign passport with a temporary I-551 stamp or with an unexpired I-94 endorsing the nonimmigrant status; a Permanent Resident Card; and an unexpired Employment Authorization Document with a photo. The acceptable List B documents, those with a photo, include a driver's license or ID card issued by a state or outlying possession of the United States; an ID card issued by federal, state, or local government agencies or entities; or a school ID card.

The E-Verify System contains a photo screening tool which assists employers in determining whether documents presented by the employee during the Form I 9 completion are valid. This system allows the employer to match photos, such as a DHS issued "green card" or permanent resident card or employment authorization card, presented by new employees when completing the I 9, with any photograph that appears in the records of the USCIS.

It is important to remember that there are documents which may be presented to the employer for verification purposes which do not contain a photo. While it is prudent for the employer to retain a copy of all documentation presented as evidence for the I-9, to the extent the employer is using E-verify and the employer receives a document that does not contain a photo, the significance of having a copy of such document on file escalates.

How do Form I 9 and E Verify Interface with Each Other?

A Form I 9 must have been completed before an employer seeks employment eligibility through E Verify. Electronic I 9 filings currently do not generate E-Verify inquiries. However, some private companies are offering this integration of E-Verify with the electronic I-9 filings.

What are Possible Results of an E Verify Submission?

After an employer submits an initial verification, the E Verify system will display one of the following results: employment authorized, SSA tentative nonconfirmation, DHS tentative nonconfirmation, SSA final nonconfirmation, DHS verification in process and case in continuance. Tentative nonconfirmations are accompanied by instructions to the employee (not the employer) to contact the SSA or DHS, and mechanisms and filing requirements for the employer to prove that it has given these instructions to the employee. A final nonconfirmation requires the employer to terminate the employee's employment.

Conclusion

The E-Verify system is so new that it is not yet possible to confirm its ability to protect the participating employer in the event of an audit by the USCIS. However, the system is free and relatively user-friendly, and provides tangible proof to the USCIS in the event of an audit that the employer did everything in its power to determine employment eligibility and takes its obligation to employ legal workers seriously. E-Verify also improves the accuracy of employer wage and tax reporting and eliminates, for the most part, receipt by the employer of SSA-generated mismatch letters.

[Backstop]

Took me a minute to say this with just a few words.

Yes, our government absolutely needs to secure our borders - I think my position on that has been plainly stated numerous times.

But not only does the supply (porous borders) need to be stemmed, the demand (low wage workers) needs to be lessened.

Both ends of the problem must be dealt with.

[Brian Baldwin]

I'd declare marshall law and declare myself King of America. Then I'd hang all the congress persons, lawyers, and college professors from street lamps. I'd then crush all the libs by throwing them to the lions in local sports arenas for public entertainment. Nuke the world except for a few select nations. (I'd nuke France twice). Take away women's right to vote since they vote for who has the best hair style. All people would have to serve 3 years in one of the military branches upon graduation of high school in order to be American Citizens ala Robert A. Heinlen. On a whim I'd make every crime a capital punishment and bring back public executions. Poodles would be outlawed. All women would be required to be topless if they're over 18 and under 60. All men would be entitled to one Muscle Car of their choice upon turning 21. (Women would receive a cookbook at the same age.) And finally I'd store all nuclear and toxic waste in San Francisco.

Be sure to write my name in come November if you're not voting for McCain...

[American Patriot]

I was under the impression that a system existed whereby an employer could verify a person's status.

Nope. Nothing. There is NO system in place to verify.

If there is no system in place to do this, why does the government tell employers to verify a potential employees status, and why is there a law in place whereby an employer can be penalized for hiring an illegal alien?

They are not. All employers must do is have them fill out what is called an "I-9" form. The employer must SEE, physically SEE two forms of ID, picture ID. One can be a drivers license, and the other can be a passport, birth certificate, SSN card and something else (I'm doing this from memory - and don't have a form handy).

Frankly, I don't have any first hand experience in determining the immigrations status of anyone. But I may call the shop tomorrow and get some details.

If you're an employer the ONLY thing required by law is that you follow proper tax procedures and you "verify" within the limits of the law as I laid out above, as well as you can. You can call the Social Security Administration and flat out ASK them to "verify an SSN for you" and they will flat out tell you that they can NOT.

If you call them up suspecting a SSN is incorrect, or being used fradulently, they can not and WILL NOT give you any information about that SSN.

Right now, I'm working at a DHS facility - the Texas Cryptology Center. To work there, you had to provide a birth cert and a Texas (or some other state issued) ID card.

They gave me a red ID badge with pic.

Some of the guys were unable to provide the needed documentation (I don‘t know what), so they have a white badge, and are not allowed inside any bldg.

A co-worker and friend of mine processed into the job site the same day I did, went through orientation, etc. He was given a white badge because he did not have the original copy of his (IIRC) Naturalization papers. He was able to get those, and was issued a red badge at some point.

We have a different sort of badging system. We do have some foreign nationals here, Mexicans and some from other South American countries. They have the same badges I have... but they haven't a clearance and mostly our badges do not indicate we have clearances. (I have some special badges I must wear in certain areas).

None of the badges are given unless they have been through the employment process and are hired, which essentially means they "got hired first".

So, badges and such really have no bearing on any of this.

If an employer knowingly breaks the law by hiring an illegal, then he needs to be penalized. Period.

KNOWINGLY. Even if they know for a fact that someone is an illegal alien, and that illegal has the RIGHT paperwork, it is not ON the employer.

Again, this is a psychological term called "Projection". The GOVERNMENT (and generally LEFTISTS) wanting to project their problems onto those with "deep pockets".

Think about it, if we fine someone a million bucks every time they screw up, look at how much money we, the government can get out of them to REDISTRIBUTE to those who are less fortunate (like, for example those very same illegals the leftists want to give medical benefits to!).

It's a vicious circle. Blame the employers for the Government's problem of letting them INTO the country in the first place, then, take money from the employers so that they can turn around and HAND it to the illegals who caused the problem in the FIRST place.