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  • Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

    Am I the only one concerned about this? If Bush had done this, the left would be freaking out, and rightfully so. Obama does it and the left pats him on the back. Why does the left feel that sending someone to Gitmo is worse than being killed?

    No charges had been filed, sure there was lots of probable cause, but in America we don't give the death penalty based on probable cause, at least not until now. All we really have to go on is this administration's word and rumours of a secret memo that no one has seen that supposedly lays out the legal case for assassinations of American citizens and why its ok.

    This isn't a right or left, republican or democrat type situation, this is something that cuts across party lines and right through the heart of our once great nation.

  • #2
    Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

    From my standpoint, it is justified. The penality for treason is still death.
    "Still waitin on the Judgement Day"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

      An American traitor and terrorist is killed abroad? A mass murdering slimeball? I don't care who the President is. Later, biz-nitch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

        Originally posted by Luke View Post
        From my standpoint, it is justified. The penality for treason is still death.
        Do we hand out the sentence of death before or after the trial?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

          As I posted in the Herman Cain thread, I'm not entirely riled up over this. Do I see the possibility of where such actions could end up? Sure...

          I think the line in the sand would be such an action being taken on American soil. I consider this guy to have been on the field of battle. True, that is a little harder to define nowadays as compared to when we shot and killed Americans fighting on behalf of Nazi Germany but the whole Middle East practically counts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

            Originally posted by catfish View Post
            Am I the only one concerned about this? If Bush had done this, the left would be freaking out, and rightfully so. Obama does it and the left pats him on the back. Why does the left feel that sending someone to Gitmo is worse than being killed?

            No charges had been filed, sure there was lots of probable cause, but in America we don't give the death penalty based on probable cause, at least not until now. All we really have to go on is this administration's word and rumours of a secret memo that no one has seen that supposedly lays out the legal case for assassinations of American citizens and why its ok.

            This isn't a right or left, republican or democrat type situation, this is something that cuts across party lines and right through the heart of our once great nation.
            I agree,

            We are on a slippery slope.

            Watching the actions of this Administration toward Conservatives and Christians and how days after they came in office rewrote their Terror Assessment Documents. To begin training agencies as they were busy retrofitting them with their Leftist replacements to profile Conservatives. Watching who and how the TSA profiles really sheds light on where they would love to take this country.

            Shortly after Obama goes out on his Muslim apology tour and embraces radical Muslims while poking his finger at Israel, he then cuts deals with the Axis to weaken America on many fronts.

            Meanwhile the hypocrisy of the Socialist MSM blocking, tackling and cheer leading for this Marxist Administration even when a Radical Muslim or Leftist Terrorist Attacks get foiled they begin spinning it to be someone on the Right makes my skin crawl.

            I don't like the Anwar guy and he should get what is coming to him if he has done the things they say he has. I have difficulty taking the word from this Administration that is now filled with Leftists that despise everything America stands for. Anxious to erode conservative freedoms while being anything but transparent.
            sigpic

            Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
            "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
            “You Americans are so gullible.
            No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
            We won’t have to fight you."
            We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

              No different than the end of Bonnie and Clyde.
              "Still waitin on the Judgement Day"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                Originally posted by Luke View Post
                No different than the end of Bonnie and Clyde.
                Weren't Bonnie and Clyde killed while attempting to apprehend them?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                  I have to say I'm a little disappointed in most of your responses to this clear violation of our constitutional rights. Maybe this story will change your mind:

                  1 7:59pm EDT

                  (Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

                  There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

                  The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.

                  The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.

                  Current and former officials said that to the best of their knowledge, Awlaki, who the White House said was a key figure in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al Qaeda's Yemen-based affiliate, had been the only American put on a government list targeting people for capture or death due to their alleged involvement with militants.

                  The White House is portraying the killing of Awlaki as a demonstration of President Barack Obama's toughness toward militants who threaten the United States. But the process that led to Awlaki's killing has drawn fierce criticism from both the political left and right.

                  In an ironic turn, Obama, who ran for president denouncing predecessor George W. Bush's expansive use of executive power in his "war on terrorism," is being attacked in some quarters for using similar tactics. They include secret legal justifications and undisclosed intelligence assessments.

                  Liberals criticized the drone attack on an American citizen as extra-judicial murder.

                  Conservatives criticized Obama for refusing to release a Justice Department legal opinion that reportedly justified killing Awlaki. They accuse Obama of hypocrisy, noting his administration insisted on publishing Bush-era administration legal memos justifying the use of interrogation techniques many equate with torture, but refused to make public its rationale for killing a citizen without due process.

                  Some details about how the administration went about targeting Awlaki emerged on Tuesday when the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Representative Dutch Ruppersberger, was asked by reporters about the killing.

                  The process involves "going through the National Security Council, then it eventually goes to the president, but the National Security Council does the investigation, they have lawyers, they review, they look at the situation, you have input from the military, and also, we make sure that we follow international law," Ruppersberger said.

                  LAWYERS CONSULTED

                  Other officials said the role of the president in the process was murkier than what Ruppersberger described.

                  They said targeting recommendations are drawn up by a committee of mid-level National Security Council and agency officials. Their recommendations are then sent to the panel of NSC "principals," meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence unit chiefs, for approval. The panel of principals could have different memberships when considering different operational issues, they said.

                  The officials insisted on anonymity to discuss sensitive information.

                  They confirmed that lawyers, including those in the Justice Department, were consulted before Awlaki's name was added to the target list.

                  Two principal legal theories were advanced, an official said: first, that the actions were permitted by Congress when it authorized the use of military forces against militants in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001; and they are permitted under international law if a country is defending itself.

                  Several officials said that when Awlaki became the first American put on the target list, Obama was not required personally to approve the targeting of a person. But one official said Obama would be notified of the principals' decision. If he objected, the decision would be nullified, the official said.

                  A former official said one of the reasons for making senior officials principally responsible for nominating Americans for the target list was to "protect" the president.

                  Officials confirmed that a second American, Samir Khan, was killed in the drone attack that killed Awlaki. Khan had served as editor of Inspire, a glossy English-language magazine used by AQAP as a propaganda and recruitment vehicle.

                  But rather than being specifically targeted by drone operators, Khan was in the wrong place at the wrong time, officials said. Ruppersberger appeared to confirm that, saying Khan's death was "collateral," meaning he was not an intentional target of the drone strike.

                  When the name of a foreign, rather than American, militant is added to targeting lists, the decision is made within the intelligence community and normally does not require approval by high-level NSC officials.

                  'FROM INSPIRATIONAL TO OPERATIONAL'

                  Officials said Awlaki, whose fierce sermons were widely circulated on English-language militant websites, was targeted because Washington accumulated information his role in AQAP had gone "from inspirational to operational." That meant that instead of just propagandizing in favor of al Qaeda objectives, Awlaki allegedly began to participate directly in plots against American targets.

                  "Let me underscore, Awlaki is no mere messenger but someone integrally involved in lethal terrorist activities," Daniel Benjamin, top counterterrorism official at the State Department, warned last spring.

                  The Obama administration has not made public an accounting of the classified evidence that Awlaki was operationally involved in planning terrorist attacks.

                  But officials acknowledged that some of the intelligence purporting to show Awlaki's hands-on role in plotting attacks was patchy.

                  For instance, one plot in which authorities have said Awlaki was involved Nigerian-born Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, accused of trying to blow up a Detroit-bound U.S. airliner on Christmas Day 2009 with a bomb hidden in his underpants.

                  There is no doubt Abdulmutallab was an admirer or follower of Awlaki, since he admitted that to U.S. investigators. When he appeared in a Detroit courtroom earlier this week for the start of his trial on bomb-plot charges, he proclaimed, "Anwar is alive."

                  But at the time the White House was considering putting Awlaki on the U.S. target list, intelligence connecting Awlaki specifically to Abdulmutallab and his alleged bomb plot was partial. Officials said at the time the United States had voice intercepts involving a phone known to have been used by Awlaki and someone who they believed, but were not positive, was Abdulmutallab.

                  Awlaki was also implicated in a case in which a British Airways employee was imprisoned for plotting to blow up a U.S.-bound plane. E-mails retrieved by authorities from the employee's computer showed what an investigator described as " operational contact" between Britain and Yemen.

                  Authorities believe the contacts were mainly between the U.K.-based suspect and his brother. But there was a strong suspicion Awlaki was at the brother's side when the messages were dispatched. British media reported that in one message, the person on the Yemeni end supposedly said, "Our highest priority is the US ... With the people you have, is it possible to get a package or a person with a package on board a flight heading to the US?"

                  U.S. officials contrast intelligence suggesting Awlaki's involvement in specific plots with the activities of Adam Gadahn, an American citizen who became a principal English-language propagandist for the core al Qaeda network formerly led by Osama bin Laden.

                  While Gadahn appeared in angry videos calling for attacks on the United States, officials said he had not been specifically targeted for capture or killing by U.S. forces because he was regarded as a loudmouth not directly involved in plotting attacks.

                  http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79475C20111005

                  Our federal government has its own personal Star Chamber, dispensing death to those they think require it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                    Originally posted by catfish View Post
                    There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.
                    No rules?

                    I find that hard to believe. I'm betting the rules just aren't public.

                    I want to see the rules they use to put one on the list.

                    We had a pretty good discussion about this elsewhere.

                    My BIGGEST gripe RFN is not knowing the rules. Combine that with the fact the goverment - especially Zero and Co. - will certainly circumnavigate these rules to suit their needs.

                    I understand - to a degree - the secrecy.

                    If they gave us full disclosure, it could - matter of fact certainly would - ruin the investigation.

                    If they disclosed all prior in an effort to gain public support, the BG would catch wind of it, and disappear.

                    If they disclosed all after the assassination, the entire information path would be destroyed.

                    Frankly, I don't have a solution.

                    And again, I absolutely understand how this could be, misused; if it hasn't already.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                      You beat me to that article catfish.

                      Here are the companion threads I was going to put with it.


                      Companion Threads:























































                      sigpic

                      Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
                      "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
                      “You Americans are so gullible.
                      No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
                      We won’t have to fight you."
                      We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                        Originally posted by vector7 View Post
                        You beat me to that article catfish.
                        Same here.

                        I just got tired of writing "scooped again."

                        Last edited by Backstop; October 6th, 2011, 17:45.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                          Dick Cheney himself defended Obama and the attack on Anwar al-Awlaki.

                          http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-in-yemen.html

                          I have no doubt the Bush-Cheney Administration would have acted the same. We're not talking about the Obama Administration's act here. We're talking about a much broader deeper US Foreign policy in general. Just how far are we allowed to go to attack a threat, foreign or domestic, that presents a very real danger to our security.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                            Originally posted by Toad View Post
                            We're not talking about the Obama Administration's act here. Just how far are we allowed to go to attack a threat, foreign or domestic, that presents a very real danger to our security.
                            Under a capitalist free market Administration I would totally agree the Administration should be able to take all means necessary to keep it's citizens safe and putting America's interests first.

                            If this Administration was really serious about security threats why is the TSA groping our children and elderly in wheel chairs and not profiling Muslims?

                            This Administration is led by Marxist Revolutionaries and now filled it's ranks with Leftist nuts making policy that hate the free market, conservatives and Christians. They want to put themselves up as dictators. This Administration has shown itself to be the most incompetent and destructive to America's security and freedoms in recent memory.


                            Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. -- President Thomas Jefferson.

                            While we're on the subject about security how about our borders, are they secure?

                            Why not?


                            What kind of an Administration hauls Arizona before the UN Human Rights Council over trying to secure its own borders?
                            sigpic

                            Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
                            "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
                            “You Americans are so gullible.
                            No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
                            We won’t have to fight you."
                            We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Obama assassinates 2 Americans and nobody cares

                              Not to compare Obama to Lincoln but I believe it was Lincoln who suspended the writ of habeus corpus during the civil war. I would agree that it is a slippery slope also, however I think it was the correct outcome. Were I the president I would have done the same thing.

                              There are people that are just plain bad. I did not know the deceased so for all I know he may have been completely innocent. I was not personally aquainted with Clyde Parker or Bonnie Parker, but history tells me they were criminals. Having seen wanted posters of Clay counties own James Woodson James stating wanted DEAD or alive, I would apply the same logic to the recently deceased CRIMINALS.

                              I do not mean to come across as snarky as this sounds, merely defending my position.
                              "Still waitin on the Judgement Day"

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