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  • #16
    Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

    Heard this on my way home today. I'd like to say I'm shocked, but I am not. We did know about the thing years ago and we also knew they made broader provisions. As to the idea they need our data as a control group, that actually has merit in an analysis to find the 'normal' in order to see the abnormal traffic, but it is wholly against our rights and any law allowing it is as well.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

      Regarding Sprint and others.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...he-government/

      Here's How Often AT&T, Sprint, And Verizon Each Hand Over Users' Data To The Government


      4 comments, 4 called-out
      Comment Now Follow Comments




      When it comes to modern law enforcement surveillance, no one watches the wiretappers.
      The vast majority of law enforcement’s demands that phone carriers and Internet services hand over users’ private data don’t require a warrant, and occur with little or no accountability. It’s not just that we don’t know how much surveillance takes place. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, we don’t even know what we don’t know about how much the government knows about us.
      But we’re finally starting to learn more. On Monday, Congressman Ed Markey released a collection of letters he received from major phone carriers in response to a query he sent them earlier this year, demanding that they reveal how often they give users’ data to the government and under what circumstances. The responses were patchy, evasive, and in many places leave out key information. But I’ve assembled a few bullet points from them that capture the massive surveillance affecting phone users.
      • Sprint received 500,000 subpoenas for its data from law enforcement in the last year. That doesn’t include court orders for wiretaps and location data, which Sprint didn’t track annually but which added up to 325,982 requests in the last five years. The company also says it doesn’t have the resources to track how many of those requests it responded to or rejected. The company has 221 employees dedicated to processing and responding to government requests for its data.
      • Verizon received 260,000 requests for its users data in 2011, including wiretaps, calling records, text message information, and location information, but doesn’t add how many were fulfilled.
      • AT&T received 131,400 subpoenas in criminal cases for its information in 2011, as well as 49,700 warrants or orders that it hand over data. It rejected 965 of them. The company says it employees more than 100 staffers full-time to respond to law enforcement demands.
      • T-Mobile told Congressman Markey it “does not disclose” the number of law enforcement requests it receives or complies with.
      • MetroPCS says it received fewer than 12,000 requests a month on average for the last six years.
      • Cricket received 42,000 requests last year, and U.S. Cellular received 19,734 requests in 2011.
      • The New York Times counts a total of 1.3 million requests for users’ information in the last year based on Markey’s data.
      • The number of data requests seems to be growing quickly across the board. The major carriers who measured the growth in requests over time agreed that law enforcement demands have risen 12-16% year-over-year.

      Markey’s request for this information followed a groundbreaking report by the American Civil Liberties Union based on Freedom of Information Act requests to police departments around the country for evidence of their policies on data requests to phone carriers. The results showed a disturbing rise in the use of phones as a central tool for law enforcement, including tracking location and even using “tower dumps”–collections of all the stored information collected from all users of a cell phone tower–without a warrant.
      It’s important to remember that the information revealed Monday includes “tower dumps,” too, says Chris Calebrese, an attorney with the ACLU. “Just the sheer volume of orders is amazing, but a significant chunk are dumps from entire cell towers,” he says. “That means tons of people’s information is being grabbed with a single one of these orders.”
      The numbers also bring home the fact that the official wiretap report released earlier this month is now all but useless. That report showed a 14% drop in wiretaps. But with less than 3,000 of those real-time communication requests reported, they represent less than a third of a percent of actual surveillance requests.
      Markey’s surveillance report puts in perspective the privacy issues for Internet services compared with phone companies. Google, which releases a bi-annual report on law enforcement requests, received only 12,271 requests for its information in 2011, compared with the hundreds of thousands received by phone companies.
      The ACLU’s Calabrese says Markey’s data points to the need for both more transparency and laws to better regulate on companies hand over users’ data. He points to the GPS Act making its way through Congress, which would require a warrant to track a user’s location with a cell phone. “It’s amazing that Congress has never regulated what standard law enforcement should use before tracking someone’s location. The appropriate standard is a probable cause search warrant,” he says. ” Clearly the cell phone has become the central tool for law enforcement investigations, even as the laws governing what information about them can access accessed and with what standard have become entirely out of date.”
      The full responses to Markey’s letter are posted here.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

        U.S. Collects Vast Data Trove

        NSA Monitoring Includes Three Major Phone Companies, as Well as Online Activity


        By SIOBHAN GORMAN, EVAN PEREZ and JANET HOOK

        WASHINGTON—The National Security Agency's monitoring of Americans includes customer records from the three major phone networks as well as emails and Web searches, and the agency also has cataloged credit-card transactions, said people familiar with the agency's activities.

        The Obama administration says its review of complete phone records of U.S. citizens is a "necessary tool" in protecting the nation from terror threats. Is this the accepted new normal, or has the Obama administration pushed the bounds of civil liberties? Cato Institute Director of Information Policy Studies Jim Harper weighs in.

        The disclosure this week of an order by a secret U.S. court for Verizon Communications Inc.'s VZ +3.46% phone records set off the latest public discussion of the program. But people familiar with the NSA's operations said the initiative also encompasses phone-call data from AT&T Inc. T +1.56% and Sprint Nextel Corp., S +1.94% records from Internet-service providers and purchase information from credit-card providers.

        The agency is using its secret access to the communications of millions of Americans to target possible terrorists, said people familiar with the effort.

        The NSA's efforts have become institutionalized—yet not so well known to the public—under laws passed in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Most members of Congress defended them Thursday as a way to root out terrorism, but civil-liberties groups decried the program.


        The National Security Agency is obtaining phone records from all Verizon U.S. customers under a secret court order, according to a newspaper report and ex-officials. WSJ intelligence correspondent Siobhan Gorman joins MoneyBeat. Photo: AP.

        "Everyone should just calm down and understand this isn't anything that is brand new,'' said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.), who added that the phone-data program has "worked to prevent'' terrorist attacks.

        Senate Intelligence Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.) said the program is lawful and that it must be renewed by Congress every three months. She said the revelation about Verizon, reported by the London-based newspaper the Guardian, seemed to coincide with its latest renewal.

        Civil-liberties advocates slammed the NSA's actions. "The most recent surveillance program is breathtaking. It shows absolutely no effort to narrow or tailor the surveillance of citizens," said Jonathan Turley, a constitutional law expert at George Washington University.

        Meanwhile, the Washington Post and the Guardian on Thursday reported the existence of a previously undisclosed program, called Prism, which was described as providing the NSA and FBI direct access to server systems operated by tech companies that include Google Inc., GOOG +0.57% Apple Inc., AAPL -1.49% Facebook Inc., FB +0.31% Yahoo Inc., YHOO +1.79% Microsoft Corp. MSFT +0.52% and Skype. The newspapers, citing what they said was an internal NSA document, said the agencies received the contents of emails, file transfers and live chats of the companies' customers as part of their surveillance activities of foreigners whose activity online is routed through the U.S. The Verizon program, by contrast, more directly involves data associated with Americans. The companies mentioned denied knowledge or participation in the program.

        The arrangement with Verizon, AT&T and Sprint, the country's three largest phone companies means, that every time the majority of Americans makes a call, NSA gets a record of the location, the number called, the time of the call and the length of the conversation, according to people familiar with the matter. The practice, which evolved out of warrantless wiretapping programs begun after 2001, is approved by all three branches of the U.S. government.

        AT&T has 107.3 million wireless customers and 31.2 million landline customers. Verizon has 98.9 million wireless customers and 22.2 million landline customers while Sprint has 55 million customers in total.

        NSA also obtains access to data from Internet service providers on Internet use such as email or website visits, several former officials said. NSA has established similar relationships with credit-card companies, three former officials said.

        It couldn't be determined if any of the Internet or credit-card arrangements are ongoing, as are the phone company efforts, or one-shot collection efforts. The credit-card firms, phone companies and NSA declined to comment for this article.

        Though extensive, the data collection effort doesn't entail monitoring the content of emails or what is said in phone calls, said people familiar with the matter. Investigators gain access to so-called metadata, telling them who is communicating, through what medium, when, and where they are located.

        But the disconnect between the program's supporters and detractors underscored the difficulty Congress has had navigating new technology, national security and privacy.

        The Obama administration, which inherited and embraced the program from the George W. Bush administration, moved Thursday to forcefully defend it. White House spokesman Josh Earnest called it "a critical tool in protecting the nation from terror threats."

        But Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.), said he has warned about the breadth of the program for years, but only obliquely because of classification restrictions.
        "When law-abiding Americans call their friends, who they call, when they call, and where they call from is private information," he said. "Collecting this data about every single phone call that every American makes every day would be a massive invasion of Americans' privacy."

        In the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, phone records were collected without a court order as a component of the Bush-era warrantless surveillance program authorized by the 2001 USA Patriot Act, which permitted the collection of business records, former officials said.



        The ad hoc nature of the NSA program changed after the Bush administration came under criticism for its handling of a separate, warrantless NSA eavesdropping program.

        President Bush acknowledged its existence in late 2005, calling it the Terrorist Surveillance Program, or TSP.

        When Democrats retook control of Congress in 2006, promising to investigate the administration's counterterrorism policies, Bush administration officials moved to formalize court oversight of the NSA programs, according to former U.S. officials.

        Congress in 2006 also made changes to the Patriot Act that made it easier for the government to collect phone-subscriber data under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

        Those changes helped the NSA collection program become institutionalized, rather than one conducted only under the authority of the president, said people familiar with the program.

        Along with the TSP, the NSA collection of phone company customer data was put under the jurisdiction of a secret court that oversees the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, according to officials.

        David Kris, a former top national security lawyer at the Justice Department, told a congressional hearing in 2009 that the government first used the so-called business records authority in 2004.

        At the time he was urging the reauthorization of the business-records provisions, known as Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which Congress later approved.

        The phone records allow investigators to establish a database used to run queries when there is "reasonable, articulable suspicion" that the records are relevant and related to terrorist activity, Ms. Feinstein said Thursday.

        The database allows investigators to "map" individuals connected with that information, said Jeremy Bash, who until recently was chief of staff at the Pentagon and is a former top aide to the House Intelligence committee.

        "We are trying to find a needle in a haystack, and this is the haystack," Mr. Bash said, referring to the database.

        Sen. Wyden on Thursday questioned whether U.S. officials have been truthful in public descriptions of the program. In March, Mr. Wyden noted, he questioned Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who said the NSA did not "wittingly" collect any type of data pertaining to millions Americans. Spokesmen for Mr. Clapper didn't respond to requests for comment.

        For civil libertarians, this week's disclosure of the court authorization for part of the NSA program could offer new avenues for challenges. Federal courts largely have rebuffed efforts that target NSA surveillance programs, in part because no one could prove the information was being collected. The government, under both the Bush and Obama administrations, has successfully used its state-secrets privilege to block such lawsuits.

        Jameel Jaffer, the American Civil Liberties Union's deputy legal director, said the fact the FISA court record has now become public could give phone-company customers standing to bring a lawsuit.

        "Now we have a set of people who can show they have been monitored," he said.


        —Danny Yadron and Jennifer Valentino-DeVries contributed to this article.

        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...289298922.html

        sigpic

        Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
        "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
        “You Americans are so gullible.
        No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
        We won’t have to fight you."
        We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."


        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

          Why is anyone surprised by this stuff. It seems to pop up with each administration over and over the awareness of what they are doing slips out as people start to get their mind wrapped around the publicly available technology. What do people think they are doing with places like the Utah center and thats the public one, not to mention all that is going on in plane site.

          What do you expect to happen when the military, the fed, the judicial and the politicians that are on the inside have their very own personal interpretation of the patriot act, that appears to be classified..........oh go figure. These people hide behind classification and hide everything from us and claim it is in our best interest since we can't handle what is going on. This is exactly how one day thanks to decades not years but decades of this practice administration after administration one day we will all go holy hell this is a prison.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

            Bush was all about the WOT.

            He didn't fund the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda to overthrow western dictators in the ME.

            Bush wouldn't say stuff like this either after another terror attack on the anniversary of 9/11...



            On our consulate in Libya killing our ambassador and dragging 3 other Americans through the streets of Benghazi.
            sigpic

            Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
            "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
            “You Americans are so gullible.
            No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
            We won’t have to fight you."
            We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."


            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records




              sigpic

              Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
              "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
              “You Americans are so gullible.
              No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
              We won’t have to fight you."
              We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."


              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                So they DID go to multiple companies. Said so as SOON as I heard they'd "hit" Verizon. And my carried would be the NUMBER ONE to be hit.

                Sick. Sad. Wrong on several levels, but especially the level of my Rights.

                NSA stop. You have no right, no business, no mission and reason to collect data on everyone and "match the phone calls to bad guys".

                You are supposed to FIND THE BAD GUYS FIRST and ASSUME THEY ARE INNOCENT then collect data on THEM and them alone.

                Where are the bloody lawyers THIS time?

                Where's the ACLU this time?

                Where's the OUTRAGE over this?
                Libertatem Prius!

                sigpic


                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                  NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program

                  Published: June 6, 2013

                  Through a top-secret program authorized by federal judges working under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), the U.S. intelligence community can gain access to the servers of nine Internet companies for a wide range of digital data. Documents describing the previously undisclosed program, obtained by The Washington Post, show the breadth of U.S. electronic surveillance capabilities in the wake of a widely publicized controversy over warrantless wiretapping of U.S. domestic telephone communications in 2005. These slides, annotated by The Washington Post, represent a selection from the overall document, and certain portions are redacted. Read related article.
                  Introducing the program

                  A slide briefing analysts at the National Security Agency about the program touts its effectiveness and features the logos of the companies involved.

                  The program is called PRISM, after the prisms used to split light, which is used to carry information on fiber-optic cables.


                  This note indicates that the program is the number one source of raw intelligence used for NSA analytic reports.


                  The seal of
                  Special Source Operations, the NSA term for alliances with trusted U.S. companies.



                  Monitoring a target's communication

                  This diagram shows how the bulk of the world’s electronic communications move through companies based in the United States.


                  Providers and data

                  The PRISM program collects a wide range of data from the nine companies, although the details vary by provider.


                  Participating providers

                  This slide shows when each company joined the program, with Microsoft being the first, on Sept. 11, 2007, and Apple the most recent, in October 2012.
                  Libertatem Prius!

                  sigpic


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                    It all starts for one reason to get one group then it will just keep sliding to others. I can't imagine how one could defend themselves against this if they so help them made a mistake. You know they never make mistakes or bad calls if you get looped into something or somebody made it look like you were doing the searching on connecting to other people but you weren't I imagine you might be screwed.

                    Dangerous and Scary

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                      NSA snoops, IRS dupes, Holder Loops and Obama Poops

                      After thirty seven years of working in, around and for the government I’ve decided that this is NOT what I signed up for.

                      We have Eric Holder lying to the public and Congress.


                      We have the National Security Agency spying on not just bad guys, but all of our emails, pictures, calls, or whatever other data you put out there. That’s great perhaps they will read THIS message.


                      We have the IRS preventing, in a most political manner, Conservative groups from getting their tax exempt status to PREVENT them from fighting the powers that be.


                      We have Obama. Need I say more?

                      Americans, it is time to STOP this intrusion into our privacy, it’s time to stop Obama from becoming a third world dictator, it’s time to stop the IRS and the Justice Department from over reaching, over arching and from being the “police arm” of the United States Government.


                      Now I know that there is one and only one job our government is SUPPOSED to be doing, and that is protecting this country from outside enemies and they AREN’T EVEN DOING THAT right. The military has been cut drastically (which China, Russia have grown, Iran is producing nuclear weapons, DPRK is producing nukes and the Muslim world is coddled). Our injured and wounded are treated like crap when they come back from “Fighting for Freedom”. That’s another joke.


                      They aren’t fighting for OUR freedoms any more, they are fighting (without their knowledge) for the Freedom of Big Government to continue it’s oppression of the people of the United States of the America. WE THE PEOPLE.


                      We are the people who OWN this country. The Government doesn’t “own” anything.


                      Get ON the phone with your Congress people and tell them to STOP THIS CRAP NOW or the American people will stop it.


                      This is NOT a police state, we do not live in 1960s Soviet Union – this is the United States of America.


                      To all you so-called Liberals out there; don’t sit on your asses any longer and whine about “Republicans” and “Tea Party”. We’re all the same. This is NOT a “Progressive” country (and Progressive is a Code Word for Communist) so get off your asses and get into this and STOP IT.


                      You Liberals seems to think your precious Freedom of Speech is protected while my Right to keep and bear arms is not. We’ve said over and over without the Second, you don’t get to keep the First. Are you starting to GRASP this yet? If you’re not, shut up, don’t vote, and don’t talk; go sit in your living room and watch television so you can be further brain washed.


                      If We the People ALLOW this to go any further you can kiss your precious Bill of Rights good bye completely.


                      Now, in case you really just don’t get this, let me explain something.


                      Pulling phone and data records (by the NSA) for basically EVERYONE in America is wrong on many, many levels. In the USA you are INNOCENT until proved Guilt.


                      Thus if they THINK you are guilty, great they can look at your stuff to prove your guilt.


                      They CAN NOT under any circumstances look at everyone’s records and dig through them until they FIND something that MIGHT be a pointer to guild. This is the Thought Police on a scale you can’t imagine.

                      Essentially what is happening here with the Justice Department (with the phone records) and the NSA (with all the other stuff) is that they are digging through every record looking for ANYTHING that might be “bad” (What ever their idea of “bad” is – and keep this part in mind). When they find something “bad” they connect some links, look at other records and make a “tree” of who is connected to whom, where they live, who they are, how much they make, what they look at on the Internet, who they call, what they buy and where they go for vacation.


                      There are those who would say “I’m not doing anything wrong, why should *I* care?” – and in truth in a perfect world with a perfect government and perfect people this would be right. But it’s blatantly obvious to anyone who hasn’t been living in a cave in the lower Himalayas that OUR government is less than perfect.


                      If on the other hand you’re like me, and millions of others and like “guns” and are a “conservative” and believe in smaller government, certain principles and just want to be left alone we become “targets” for an oppressive government looking at everything we do; and while what we do isn’t wrong, it could be considered “bad” by this particular Administration and obviously HAS been considered so. Look at all the groups shut down by the IRS because they were doing nothing more than what the Liberal groups were doing…. but were CONSERVATIVE, or TEA PARTY, or for LIBERTY, or SMALLER GOVERNMENT.


                      If 100% of the people out there are completely outraged over all of this, then the small percentage NOT outraged must be part of the problem.


                      It’s time for them to go. It’s time for Congressmen and women, President, Justice Department officials, IRS officials and anyone else who seems to think they “Control America” to get OUT of Office and be put in prison.


                      I’m calling for the arrest of all of those people. There are still a few good men and women in Congress and in the Government. They need to stand up, be heard and shut down the corruption and oppression in America.


                      This is NOT Russia. This is NOT China. Big Government is BAD, VERY VERY BAD. This has to stop.


                      June 7, 2013 - Posted by RickD | Big Government, FBI, Government Overreach, Justice Department, Second Amendment, Survival, The Throes of Tyranny, Trans-Asian Axis | Big Government, FBI, Government Overreach, IRS, Justice Department, NSA, Patriot Act, Politics, Preparedness, Second Amendment, Self Reliance, SHTF, Survival, Survival Skills, Throes of Tyranny, transasian axis, Unconstitutional
                      Libertatem Prius!

                      sigpic


                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                        http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gover...0#.UbHeVZxv18E
                        Libertatem Prius!

                        sigpic


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                          Good. Perhaps they should release MORE information now and shut this crap down:



                          US intelligence chief denounces release of information

                          Revealing huge surveillance programme risks damaging US national security, James Clapper says






                          Disclosure of the massive surveillance of phone records and internet communications risks “long-lasting and irreversible harm” to US national security, the director of national intelligence says.


                          Late on Thursday night US time James Clapper issued a bullet-point defence of the surveillance programs disclosed by the Guardian and the Washington Post, saying they contained “numerous safeguards that protect privacy and civil liberties”. To correct the “misleading impression left in the article” – apparently a reference to the Guardian’s original story – Clapper said he approved the declassification of his defence of the National Security Agency’s collection of every phone record from millions of Verizon customers.


                          “There is a robust legal regime in place governing all activities conducted pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act” Clapper wrote, “which ensures that those activities comply with the Constitution and laws and appropriately protect privacy and civil liberties. The program at issue here is conducted under authority granted by Congress and is authorized by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). By statute, the Court is empowered to determine the legality of the program."


                          A judge for Fisa Court, as the surveillance body is known, reviewed and approved the surveillance. But critics have pointed out that the Fisa Court has almost never, in its 35-year history, rejected a US surveillance request – a perception of docility that prompted its presiding judge, Reggie Walton, to defend the court’s integrity in a statement to the Guardian on Thursday.


                          Clapper said the Fisa Court had established procedures preventing the government “indiscriminately sifting” through the collected phone records. “The court only allows the data to be queried when there is a reasonable suspicion, based on specific facts, that the particular basis for the query is associated with a foreign terrorist organisation,” Clapper said. “Only a small fraction of the records are ever reviewed” by “specifically cleared counterterrorism personnel”.


                          At the same time, Clapper said national security required the NSA to collect all the Verizon subscriber data, even if not all the data would be analysed, and regardless of any evidence to link the phone records to crime, foreign espionage or terrorism. On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that other telecoms received similar orders from the government for the subscriber data.


                          “The collection is broad in scope,” Clapper wrote, “because more narrow collection would limit our ability to protect the nation from terrorist threats to the United States, as it may assist counterterrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities.”


                          Yet the collection does not need to be tied to terrorism to occur – something that alarmed one Democrat senator, Jeff Merkley. He told the Guardian on Thursday that the sweeping “barn-door” collection appeared to violate the provision of the Patriot Act purportedly authorising it.


                          “We can't really propose changes to the law unless we know what the words mean as interpreted by the court,” Merkley said.


                          Clapper reiterated a point the Obama administration made on Thursday in its response to the Guardian’s story: the NSA’s dragnet of Verizon phone records, which the Fisa Court authorised until 19 July, does not include the “content of any communications or the identity of any subscriber”. Yet the so-called “metadata” – phone numbers, duration of calls – can be combined with publicly available information to easily determine subscriber identity. And a second NSA surveillance effort, disclosed by the Guardian on Thursday and codenamed PRISM, collects the content of communications provided through Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple and five other large internet companies.


                          Clapper came under criticism on Thursday for statements to Democrat senator Ron Wyden that appeared to be contradicted by the revelations of the surveillance programs.

                          Asked in March whether “millions” of Americans had “any kind of [their] data” collected by the US government, Clapper replied: “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly."


                          He has denied misleading Congress, but Clapper’s statement on Thursday suggested the collection of Americans’ phone records was deliberate, methodical and institutionalised.

                          “Discussing programs like this publicly,” Clapper concluded, “will have an impact on the behavior of our adversaries and make it more difficult for us to understand their intentions.” (RD: Yes it will. But it won't STOP the NSA from collecting on AMERICANS, which is the ultimate GOAL of this program).


                          Libertatem Prius!

                          sigpic


                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                            Did Clapper lie to Congress?

                            posted at 9:11 am on June 7, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

                            Earlier, I noted that James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, offered a hasty and oddly-phrased defense of PRISM, the massive data surveillance system exposed by the Washington Post yesterday evening. Clapper claimed that FISA courts have imposed restrictions that “ensure that only non-U.S. persons outside the U.S. are targeted, and that minimize the acquisition, retention and dissemination of incidentally acquired information about U.S. persons,” which doesn’t actually mean that the NSA isn’t accessing massive amounts of data from US persons while trying to find and target non-US persons. In fact, there would be almost impossible to do the latter without having access to everything.
                            Even before the exposure of PRISM, The Hill’s Carlo Munoz wondered if Clapper hadn’t lied to Congress in testimony three months ago, when he denied that the NSA was rummaging through American e-mails. That question may be more pertinent than Munoz thought (via Instapundit):
                            Testifying before the Senate Intelligence Committee, Clapper denied allegations by panel members the NSA conducted electronic surveillance of Americans on U.S. soil.
                            “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” committee member Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asked Clapper during the March 12 hearing.
                            In response, Clapper replied quickly: “No, sir.”
                            “There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect [intelligence on Americans], but not wittingly,” the U.S. intelligence chief told Wyden and the rest of the committee.
                            That said, “particularly in the case of NSA and CIA, there are structures against tracking American citizens in the United States for foreign intelligence purposes,” Clapper added.
                            Earlier in the day yesterday, Clapper tried to parse his denial:
                            On Thursday, Clapper clarified his remarks during the March hearing, telling the National Journal his comments were referring to NSA or other intelligence agencies intentionally reviewing e-mails and other electronic communications.
                            “What I said was, ‘the NSA does not voyeuristically pore through U.S. citizens’ e-mails.’ I stand by that,” Clapper said.
                            I wonder if he stands by that specific denial today? Perhaps he’ll claim that the qualifier of voyeuristically lets him off the hook. If PRISM accesses the entire output of nine major Internet providers for patterns to flag within content as the Washington Post reported, then the NSA does go through the e-mails of US citizens, even if they pledge to “minimize” its “acquisition, retention, and dissemination,” as Clapper claimed after the PRISM story broke. Whether or not the agency gets a voyeuristic thrill is hardly the issue for Americans who at least had some illusions that their government wasn’t snooping on their Internet communications without having a specific reason to do so.
                            Now we have another of Barack Obama’s direct reports who appears to have either flat-out lied or attempted to at least mislead Congress while the legislative branch conducted its oversight responsibilities. If one wanted to look for patterns, there seems to be one developing at the highest ranks of this administration.
                            Libertatem Prius!

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                            • #29
                              Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                              Mark Kirk to Holder: Tell the truth, has the DOJ been harvesting Congress’s phone records too?

                              posted at 2:41 pm on June 6, 2013 by Allahpundit

                              Via Joel Gehrke, I won’t spoil the surprise of Holder’s answer. I’ll simply amend something that I said last night on Twitter: After this exchange, we may be only two or three more scandals away from this guy’s job being in trouble.

                              At another point in today’s hearing, he said he won’t resign because there are still lots of “goals” he has as AG — which, given the news of the last few weeks, may be the single most terrifying soundbite to come out of Scandalmania. To cleanse your palate after you watch, read this short but pungent Onion piece that fills the gap between what Hopenchange promised circa 2008 and what it’s amounted to in practice. If you cringed at O’s insulting speech about how stricken his liberal conscience is by having to vaporize unidentified Pakistanis from the air, you’ll appreciate it.



                              http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/0...ge-1/#comments
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                              Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
                              "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
                              “You Americans are so gullible.
                              No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
                              We won’t have to fight you."
                              We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands."


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                              • #30
                                Re: Obama seizing Verizon phone records

                                Honestly, I HOPE they have looked at Congress' phone records. MAYBE someone will do something. Probably not though.

                                And who really gives a crap whether NSA was looking at some Congressman's phone records?

                                (Remember the reason we can't buy scanners with 900mhz on it? Because someone leaked a recording of a Congressman on a cellular phone years ago to the media and made him "look bad" so they made a LAW to prevent anyone from monitoring 900 Mhz calls... )
                                Libertatem Prius!

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